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	<title>Comments on: Understanding file downloads and their remnants</title>
	<atom:link href="http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/</link>
	<description>Insanely Simple Tutorials for the First Time Macintosh User</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5</generator>
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		<title>By: Scott Haneda</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-6184</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Haneda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 06:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-6184</guid>
		<description>@Jerry, thanks for noticing.  We actually talked about that very aspect.  As you probably know there are 100's of Mac sites out there, our edge over them, if you can call it that is we try to being it down to normal language levels.  People do not care about what SATA, eSATA, USB, and all the other acronyms are, we just want to teach you what the general concepts are.  Once you get the general ideas, there are plenty of places to dig deeper if you so desire.

Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jerry, thanks for noticing.  We actually talked about that very aspect.  As you probably know there are 100&#8217;s of Mac sites out there, our edge over them, if you can call it that is we try to being it down to normal language levels.  People do not care about what SATA, eSATA, USB, and all the other acronyms are, we just want to teach you what the general concepts are.  Once you get the general ideas, there are plenty of places to dig deeper if you so desire.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-6183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-6183</guid>
		<description>Scott:
The best thing about your site is that you explain in language that anyone (even I) can understand. Too often, those who know don't know how to communicate to those who don't know (I've found this problem asking questions in Apple Support Discussions), which leaves the questioner (me) feeling dumb and, at times, more confused than before. Thanks for the clarity!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott:<br />
The best thing about your site is that you explain in language that anyone (even I) can understand. Too often, those who know don&#8217;t know how to communicate to those who don&#8217;t know (I&#8217;ve found this problem asking questions in Apple Support Discussions), which leaves the questioner (me) feeling dumb and, at times, more confused than before. Thanks for the clarity!</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Cotellese</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-6177</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Cotellese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 02:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-6177</guid>
		<description>I've posted a videocast demonstrating the download process at Learning OS X. You can see the video here.

http://www.learningosx.com/2008/06/where-do-my-downloads-go/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve posted a videocast demonstrating the download process at Learning OS X. You can see the video here.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.learningosx.com/2008/06/where-do-my-downloads-go/" rel="nofollow">http://www.learningosx.com/2008/06/where-do-my-downloads-go/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Peter Giger</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4576</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Giger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 07:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4576</guid>
		<description>I am an experienced win and linux user. This post helped me to understand dmg-files, which seemed to behave strangely. Thank you...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an experienced win and linux user. This post helped me to understand dmg-files, which seemed to behave strangely. Thank you&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Haneda</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4352</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Haneda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4352</guid>
		<description>@Mary, by downloads, we mean the actual files that are downloaded.  In Leopard 10.5, they will end up in your Downloads folder, which is in your home folder.  You can access this by going to the "Go" menu in the Finder, and selecting "Home" then opening the "Downloads" folder.

The dialog box you are talking about is just a download history in Safari, that shows you what you have downloaded in the past.  You can click on the small magnifying glass icon and it will also take you right to the file you downloaded, assuming it still exists and you have not deleted it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mary, by downloads, we mean the actual files that are downloaded.  In Leopard 10.5, they will end up in your Downloads folder, which is in your home folder.  You can access this by going to the &#8220;Go&#8221; menu in the Finder, and selecting &#8220;Home&#8221; then opening the &#8220;Downloads&#8221; folder.</p>
<p>The dialog box you are talking about is just a download history in Safari, that shows you what you have downloaded in the past.  You can click on the small magnifying glass icon and it will also take you right to the file you downloaded, assuming it still exists and you have not deleted it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Apodaca</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4321</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Apodaca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4321</guid>
		<description>I loved this post because I'm a minimalist and have but worried. What do you mean by one's downloads? The dialog box that shows what you've downloaded that invites you to clear it each time? Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved this post because I&#8217;m a minimalist and have but worried. What do you mean by one&#8217;s downloads? The dialog box that shows what you&#8217;ve downloaded that invites you to clear it each time? Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Haneda</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4268</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Haneda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4268</guid>
		<description>@Bill, the Dock is something we are working on, Caroline has been writing about it now for a month, so I assume it is going to be great, or, maybe, she is just lazy :-)

Any item in the Dock is not a real file, but an "alias" of sorts.  So while Leopard comes with a folder that is "Downloads" it is nothing more than a "shortcut" or "Alias" to the real downloads folder in your home folder.

Same for anything in the dock, which is why you can remove anything from the Dock and it is not destructive.

Hope that helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill, the Dock is something we are working on, Caroline has been writing about it now for a month, so I assume it is going to be great, or, maybe, she is just lazy <img src='http://osxhelp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Any item in the Dock is not a real file, but an &#8220;alias&#8221; of sorts.  So while Leopard comes with a folder that is &#8220;Downloads&#8221; it is nothing more than a &#8220;shortcut&#8221; or &#8220;Alias&#8221; to the real downloads folder in your home folder.</p>
<p>Same for anything in the dock, which is why you can remove anything from the Dock and it is not destructive.</p>
<p>Hope that helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Ruth</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4264</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4264</guid>
		<description>One of your best and most helpful articles to-date, THANK YOU!
Did you explain about the additional downloads folder (new in Leopard) in the dock that is in addition to the downloads folder in the users area? 
Another reason to delete duplicated files is to keep maximum hard-drive spare for what counts. I always run out of hard-drive space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of your best and most helpful articles to-date, THANK YOU!<br />
Did you explain about the additional downloads folder (new in Leopard) in the dock that is in addition to the downloads folder in the users area?<br />
Another reason to delete duplicated files is to keep maximum hard-drive spare for what counts. I always run out of hard-drive space.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Haneda</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4041</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Haneda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4041</guid>
		<description>@Morgan, no toe stepping at all, actually, thank you for taking the time to write a reply.  This has always been our hope, to get some of the more advanced users in here, helping others out.

I wan't to emphasize the "small chance" of "loosing sync" you pointed out.  For file copies off of a mounted drive, in the case of Mac OS X, if the file copy dialogue is no longer on your screen, the files in fact were moved.

I am not 100% sure, but on a copy onto, the same should apply.

This is in direct contrast to Windows, where a file copy can continue, even after the file copy dialogue is gone, and long gone, as in seconds after, the files are still catching up.  This has been the case since XP, and up to Vista, though both are marginally different at how they approach it.

The main reason the OS is "scolding", at least in my guess, is the overhead to watch the removable media, and see if it is in fact in use during a file operation is high.  Easier to just alert the user to a best practice case, and not have to run a background process that will watch all removable media.

in closing, remember as Morgan states, it is a "small chance", OS X is robust enough to know that at any time, a power failure, battery failure, or stray cat can cause your computer to shut down.  

Firewire is the only one I am really careful with, as you can in fact fry the firewire bus under certain also rare cases by skipping the unmount.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Morgan, no toe stepping at all, actually, thank you for taking the time to write a reply.  This has always been our hope, to get some of the more advanced users in here, helping others out.</p>
<p>I wan&#8217;t to emphasize the &#8220;small chance&#8221; of &#8220;loosing sync&#8221; you pointed out.  For file copies off of a mounted drive, in the case of Mac OS X, if the file copy dialogue is no longer on your screen, the files in fact were moved.</p>
<p>I am not 100% sure, but on a copy onto, the same should apply.</p>
<p>This is in direct contrast to Windows, where a file copy can continue, even after the file copy dialogue is gone, and long gone, as in seconds after, the files are still catching up.  This has been the case since XP, and up to Vista, though both are marginally different at how they approach it.</p>
<p>The main reason the OS is &#8220;scolding&#8221;, at least in my guess, is the overhead to watch the removable media, and see if it is in fact in use during a file operation is high.  Easier to just alert the user to a best practice case, and not have to run a background process that will watch all removable media.</p>
<p>in closing, remember as Morgan states, it is a &#8220;small chance&#8221;, OS X is robust enough to know that at any time, a power failure, battery failure, or stray cat can cause your computer to shut down.  </p>
<p>Firewire is the only one I am really careful with, as you can in fact fry the firewire bus under certain also rare cases by skipping the unmount.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Haneda</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4039</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Haneda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 07:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4039</guid>
		<description>@WetcoastBob, yes, drive space is cheap these days and you can in fact safely safe anything you like.  I would be a little worried that the files are out of date.  Software is updated so often these days, most installers do not stand the test of time.

Then again, I do find myself downloading things many times over, and your method could save some people some time, just make sure you are still using the most current version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@WetcoastBob, yes, drive space is cheap these days and you can in fact safely safe anything you like.  I would be a little worried that the files are out of date.  Software is updated so often these days, most installers do not stand the test of time.</p>
<p>Then again, I do find myself downloading things many times over, and your method could save some people some time, just make sure you are still using the most current version.</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4031</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4031</guid>
		<description>@Matt Nikos:

When you eject a disk image or physical device such as a thumb drive or external hard drive, you are ensuring that any remaining changes made to the files and other information on that device gets updated before you pull it out of the port. Mac OS X is based on BSD, which, like other Unix derivatives, will cache any changes in RAM before committing them to the physical device. This speeds up transfers for the end user, but the downside is that the changes aren't final until the drive is ejected. This means that if you don't eject before removing the hardware, there's a small chance you may "lose sync" with the data still in RAM and could end up with corrupted files. By ejecting every time, you are ensuring that your data is not corrupted. 

I may be wrong, but I believe that the reason you probably never had an issue with it on a PC is because you can tell the OS not to warn you about such things. Also, Windows does handle such caching a bit differently; given sufficient time the data in RAM will sync with the device in a background process, making an eject command unnecessary most of the time.

P.S.: Scott, sorry if I stepped on your toes here but I figured I'd throw in the answer since I was here. No offense intended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt Nikos:</p>
<p>When you eject a disk image or physical device such as a thumb drive or external hard drive, you are ensuring that any remaining changes made to the files and other information on that device gets updated before you pull it out of the port. Mac OS X is based on BSD, which, like other Unix derivatives, will cache any changes in RAM before committing them to the physical device. This speeds up transfers for the end user, but the downside is that the changes aren&#8217;t final until the drive is ejected. This means that if you don&#8217;t eject before removing the hardware, there&#8217;s a small chance you may &#8220;lose sync&#8221; with the data still in RAM and could end up with corrupted files. By ejecting every time, you are ensuring that your data is not corrupted. </p>
<p>I may be wrong, but I believe that the reason you probably never had an issue with it on a PC is because you can tell the OS not to warn you about such things. Also, Windows does handle such caching a bit differently; given sufficient time the data in RAM will sync with the device in a background process, making an eject command unnecessary most of the time.</p>
<p>P.S.: Scott, sorry if I stepped on your toes here but I figured I&#8217;d throw in the answer since I was here. No offense intended.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Nikos</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4027</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4027</guid>
		<description>Hi, Scott,
Can you explain why it is necessary on a Mac to drag discs and other items to the trash (eject) before removing or disconnecting them?  I don't ever remember getting into trouble for doing so on a PC, but my Mac scolds me any time I forget to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Scott,<br />
Can you explain why it is necessary on a Mac to drag discs and other items to the trash (eject) before removing or disconnecting them?  I don&#8217;t ever remember getting into trouble for doing so on a PC, but my Mac scolds me any time I forget to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: WetcoastBob</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-4024</link>
		<dc:creator>WetcoastBob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-4024</guid>
		<description>I have a file that I save all my DMGs in.  I find it is helpful when setting up a new machine to have a copy of all the bits of software I have downloaded over the years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a file that I save all my DMGs in.  I find it is helpful when setting up a new machine to have a copy of all the bits of software I have downloaded over the years.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Haneda</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-3996</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Haneda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-3996</guid>
		<description>@JimB, exactly, people get so caught up in the idea that deleting is destructive, that they tend to hold onto everything.  As time goes on, you forget what you really need or not, and end up just keeping everything.  Glad this helped to explain a few things to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JimB, exactly, people get so caught up in the idea that deleting is destructive, that they tend to hold onto everything.  As time goes on, you forget what you really need or not, and end up just keeping everything.  Glad this helped to explain a few things to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-3962</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-3962</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the article! 

I find with all new Mac users, they tend to mount the DMGs and run applications directly from them (unless there are visible instructions to do otherwise, which some developers are kind enough to include).

On top of that, they never trash any of the DMG or ZIP files.

I have high hopes that Apple will sometime address this major confusion point for new users.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the article! </p>
<p>I find with all new Mac users, they tend to mount the DMGs and run applications directly from them (unless there are visible instructions to do otherwise, which some developers are kind enough to include).</p>
<p>On top of that, they never trash any of the DMG or ZIP files.</p>
<p>I have high hopes that Apple will sometime address this major confusion point for new users.</p>
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		<title>By: JimB</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-3939</link>
		<dc:creator>JimB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-3939</guid>
		<description>Ha, I was collecting those dmg's in a file till I figured out/read somewhere that they get tossed after gettin' the application.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha, I was collecting those dmg&#8217;s in a file till I figured out/read somewhere that they get tossed after gettin&#8217; the application.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Haneda</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-3886</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Haneda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-3886</guid>
		<description>@emanuele, yes, you are correct, and I will clarify the post.  When I state to put the image in the trash, it means to unmount it.  I have found many users have a hard time understanding what an "image" is.  I should clarify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@emanuele, yes, you are correct, and I will clarify the post.  When I state to put the image in the trash, it means to unmount it.  I have found many users have a hard time understanding what an &#8220;image&#8221; is.  I should clarify.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-3808</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-3808</guid>
		<description>I read about this whole topic already on Mac Kindergarten earlier this week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read about this whole topic already on Mac Kindergarten earlier this week.</p>
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		<title>By: emanuele</title>
		<link>http://osxhelp.com/understanding-file-downloads-and-their-remnants/#comment-3720</link>
		<dc:creator>emanuele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osxhelp.com/?p=134#comment-3720</guid>
		<description>Hi, I am a bit confused about your suggestion to trash the mounted .dmg file after installing an app. I normally unmount the image and trash the .dmg. Is it a wrong procedure? Does it leave unwanted remnants? Thanks, and keep up the great work</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I am a bit confused about your suggestion to trash the mounted .dmg file after installing an app. I normally unmount the image and trash the .dmg. Is it a wrong procedure? Does it leave unwanted remnants? Thanks, and keep up the great work</p>
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